How to Choose Joy and Break Free from Guilt

Have you ever felt like you’re stuck in a cycle of doing everything for others but never making space for your own happiness? If so, you’re not alone. Many women struggle with prioritizing themselves, feeling guilty for wanting more, and believing that joy is something they must earn rather than something they deserve.

On this episode of the Healed and Cash Flowing Podcast, we sat down with Debbie Lucas, The Joy Alchemist, to talk about why joy should be a non-negotiable in your life—and how to make it happen without guilt or fear

From People-Pleasing to Personal Freedom

Debbie spent 23 years in social work, always taking care of others but never making space for herself. Like many women, she was conditioned to believe that prioritizing her needs was selfish. However, after embarking on a deep personal and spiritual journey, she realized something life-changing:

👉 Joy isn’t something you need to earn—it’s something you can choose every single day.

By working with mentors, practicing self-awareness, and listening to her intuition, Debbie learned how to overcome the guilt and embrace her true calling as a healer and coach.

Why You Feel Stuck (And How to Change It)

Many of us feel stuck because we are:

✅ Living in the past (holding on to old guilt, regret, or limiting beliefs).
✅ Living in the future (constantly worrying about what’s next instead of enjoying the present).
✅ Ignoring our intuition (knowing what we want but being afraid to act on it).

According to Debbie, the key to unlocking joy is presence and radical self-trust. That means:

🔥 Recognizing that your worthiness is not tied to your productivity.
🔥 Allowing yourself to make decisions based on intuition, not just logic.
🔥 Creating a balance between action and rest, so you don’t burn out.

Your Joy is a Responsibility, Not a Reward

One of the most powerful moments in this conversation was when Debbie shared how she transitioned from working behind the scenes (helping others shine) to finally stepping into her own power as a healer. She made a decision to put herself on the list—and it changed everything.

She also introduced the concept of the Self-Worth Loop, explaining how:

➡ If you don’t feel worthy, you’ll keep attracting situations that reinforce that belief.
➡ If you choose joy daily, you’ll naturally attract opportunities that align with your true desires.

This isn’t just about making big, life-changing decisions. It’s also about the small choices—like drinking coffee from your favorite mug, taking a break when you need it, or saying “no” without guilt.

Final Thought: Trust the Timing of Your Life

If you’re feeling stuck or hesitant to make a big move, remember:

💡 Things are always working out for you.

You don’t have to have everything figured out right now. All you need to do is trust, take the next step, and choose joy—one decision at a time.

Are you ready to break free from guilt and start prioritizing yourself? Let us know in the comments: What’s one small way you’ll choose joy today?

💡 Want to Learn from Debbie? Here’s How to Connect

Debbie is the Joy Alchemist for women who want to confidently prioritise their joy without feeling selfish or guilty by releasing self-doubt, align with their higher purpose, and rise into their authentic power.

She has faced moments of doubt, overwhelm, and misalignment. It wasn’t until she embarked on her own transformational journey - peeling back layers of limiting beliefs, healing past wounds, and discovering her true soul’s purpose - that she realised her mission: to guide others on their path to alignment and empowerment.

She is also an international best selling author in the anthology Rebel Ma: Healing in the Time of the Feminine.

🔗 Connect with Debbie Lucas:

➡️ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spiritualdebbie/

➡️ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/spiritualdebbielucas

➡️ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spiritual_debbie/

➡️ Website: https://www.debbielucas.me/

Transcription

Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the Healed in Cash Flowing podcast show. How are you?

Hi, Cat. Thanks for having me. And yeah, I'm doing well. Thank you.

I'm so glad that you're here, and I cannot wait to dig in because your subject is so freaking good. But for those that don't know you yet, can you tell us a little bit about who you are?

Yeah. So my name is Debbie Lucas, and I'm the Joy Alchemist for women who want to confidently prioritize their own joy without feeling selfish or guilty. And that's because of my own journey that I've been through. And now all the tools and everything that I've learned, I'm now helping to support other women to do the same.

Oh, my God. Just the title, just the fact that you are the Joy Alchemist. I'm going I give you kudos for that because it's such a beautiful name. But then you add that part of without feeling selfish or guilty. And women, and I'm going to speak for myself, have struggled with that as well. So I'm glad that you're doing that. So why did you start doing this? Why are you helping women feel like that?

Yeah. My journey, all my life I knew I was here for something more, but I wanted to help people. I went through a social work career of 23 years, had my son, and he's nearly 18. He'll be 18 in July. I've always felt guilty of being a full-time working mother and always wanted to start my own business, but just never quite felt to have the confidence. Then about three years ago, I started this massive spiritual and personal and had to really go deep. I had loads of coaches and mentors that helped me with this to heal the shadows, work with the shadows, tap into those limiting beliefs, and really Because the selfish was a big thing for me. I grew up with messages of, who do you think you are? You always get your own way. You're selfish for asking for what you want. And so had to really unlearnt a lot of that. I I never even was able to tell you what I wanted out of life because my needs didn't even feature. They weren't even on the bottom of the to-do list. As I gradually learned to learn that I'm worthy, embrace my needs and my wants, and realized that it wasn't selfish, my life completely changed.

My outlook on life changed, and things started to flow so much better. It was only November last year in 2024 that it landed that this is my soul's purpose This is what I'm here to help people with. And since then, I've been in this state of bliss and flow, and it's been so beautiful. And I just want that for everybody else as well.

Oh, my God. I can resonate with that so much. And I'm so glad that you went. And it's funny how we all start with ourselves. You have gone into this amazing three-year spiritual journey of connecting with yourself. So I know that you said that you were feeling guilty and you weren't even sure. You couldn't even express what you need to. They didn't even register. So you were probably feeling guilty, but did you know that something was missing? What was the catalyst? How were you feeling in terms of, I want more, but did you even have the words to say how you were feeling?

I think for me, it was a freedom, and I think freedom is something that we all can aspire to anyway. But I wanted to do what I wanted when I wanted. I wanted to be the unconditional for my son, and I just didn't know how to get to that place because society conditions It questions us. You go to school, the 9: 00 to 5: 00 mentality, you then go to university or college, you then get your corporate job, and you're just stuck in this. You have to work hard. You have to keep aspiring in your career in the corporate and there's never really... We're not taught at school, we're not taught in society, really. More so nowadays, but back in the day, that there's more, you can do something different. You can be successful running your own business isn't hard work if you align with what you're meant to be here to do. And that's what shifted for me as well.

That is so good. So you decided to go on this journey, you're doing on this journey, and you had all these coaches. How do you decide? I need to go outside of myself to get help? What was that moment of, Hey, I need to find other people that can help me along the way?

I think for me, I was a social worker, and when I looked at in my own business. I trained as a life coach in NLP and hypnosis practitioner, so that's my additional certification. The NLP part really helped me to understand the science behind the unconscious mind and how it works and the limiting beliefs. And then it was just being present in the moment and being open to opportunities present to myself. Back then, in 2021 into 2022, I started a podcast. And my first guest interviewer or interviewee was a woman who was writing a book. She was a women's empowerment coach. And so it just... I read her book, loved the book, and then said, Di, I need to work with you. That was my first dipping my toe into working with coaches in any shape or form. She just blew my mind, opened up my world, really, I think I used the term, kick my body off stuck unconsciousness because I didn't even realize it. I think it's not until I had somebody reflecting back and helping me to really think about it. And so then I've always been investing in different coaches, leaning into who do I need next?

What do I need next. It wasn't really such a conscious decision as more like just going with the flow. And at that point, it was still very conscious about it, but just feeling this draw and this need to work with this person that was in my world at that point.

Yeah. And I love that you were so sensitive to... Because you could have felt that she could have been the person to get you started. But I love that you're like, Let me follow this little glimmer of this. There's something here. Read the book and then reach out and say, We need to work together. You need to help me. I love that for you. That's amazing.

Yeah. And I think since then, and probably most of the past 12 months, I've really worked on leaning into my intuition and making decisions based on that. So for me, it's all about staying very present and aware in the moment, because if you're If you've got all the noise and everything that's going on for you, you don't see the opportunities presented in front of you. Actually, one of the iterations of my business early on was, I remember saying to die, who was my coach, that first coach, I want to help I want to build websites. I want to help coaches launch their programs. I had two phone calls, one a week apart. The first one, I just gave some general advice for free. It was the second one, I was speaking to the person and When I was speaking to her, I realized, But I should be offering. This is what I want to do. I said to her on the call, Actually, this is something that I want to start doing is online business management, helping coaches loan programs. She was like, Send me a proposal of what you can help me with and let's work together.

If I'd done that with the first person, then it might be my first client. But it was really just about being present and seeing what is the universe giving me and stepping into that. That launched me into a two-year career as an online business manager until as As I said last year, I realized I was hiding behind my mission of helping other people heal the world by helping them reach more people. I am a healer. I am that person as well, and I have a gift to share, and it would be a sudden not to do that. So stepping into that was really powerful for me.

Yeah, that's so amazing. So when you said, for those that are new to these concepts, right? When you say stay present, and people are like, what do you mean stay present? I'm here, I'm alive. Life is not on us, what do you mean by staying present?

We often tend to live in our past, and we also tend to live in the future. If you're in more depressed mode in the past, things that happen, ruminating. So you've got all of that constantly in your mind. Or if you're living in an anxiety state, you're thinking about the future and what might happen. Being present is really about realizing that the past has happened. And yes, it's part of our story, but it doesn't change. Sorry, I've lost my word now. It doesn't define who we are. There's endless possibilities in the future, and I'll come back to that point later on in the conversation. Staying present in the moment is about realizing that now is all we have. Consciously, this is all we're experiencing in this very moment. I don't work with goals as such, but it's about knowing what your dreams and your aspirations are, and that's your destination. But in the moment, what right now is going to get me on that path? What's the next step? Really only focusing on that because that's all you've got. Sometimes you might go this way to the left, sometimes you might go that way to the right, But ultimately, if you know that you want to head to that destination, what's the next step?

Right now, what do I need to do? What's going to move the needle? Sometimes that's as much as sending one email or making one phone call. Sometimes it's a like going out and viewing properties if you want to buy in your home or going to see cars or whatever it may be. But it's always just one step closer to it, no matter how small.

Yeah, that is so good. And I love the fact that it can be as simple as today you rest, right? I don't know if that happened to you, that sometimes you're like, I'm motivated, and then nothing, you try to start and nothing happens because your body is saying, the best thing that you could do that's going to propel you really, really forward is to take this freaking day off or rest for the afternoon. Because when you get motivated, you just want to go, right? I get myself burned out often, and I am learning to, No, girl, chill. Take that now and then do it later. And most of the time when I listen, it's just for the better.

Yeah. No, 100 %. And I actually experienced that a few weeks ago, or a few months ago, actually, where I woke up and I had a to-do list the length of my arm and I have so much I wanted to do and I just was not feeling great. And so I decided, you know what? The to-do list can wait. There was nothing urgent on it. And I made myself a cup of tea and I sat on the sofa with my dog and I just rested. And By lunchtime, I felt so energized and so better that I powered through my to-do list and got even more done. That was such a wake-up call for me to realize that actually just how important rest is and prioritizing myself. Whereas before, it was like, oh, this person needs me to do that. I need to do that for that person. I'm going to let them down. But when we realize that we very rarely are in a life or death situation with these things, and that's about regulating your nervous system as well. Unless it is genuinely a truly life or death situation, you're not going to die.

The other person is not going to die. If the email doesn't get sent, is it absolutely the end of the world? That's a big part of it as well is just working with what's causing me anxiety and how can I calm my nervous system? System down, but also not just pushing that aside, learning to face those feelings and those emotions because it's showing you something that you need to resolve as well.

Yeah. Oh, my God. That's so good. I was thinking, I was laughing because one thing that I always say, no babies or poppies are going to die if that doesn't happen. And if you have an emergency, I'll call a friend the other day, and then she's like, Oh, can you talk? And I say, Yes, I picked up. I am never going to pick up the phone and I cannot talk. You just picked up the phone. So if you cannot talk, text me and say, I'm in the middle of something right now. And if I have an emergency, I told her, please no. He in the United States is 911. I don't know what the number is. Yes, 999. I'm going to call 911 for emergency. Don't worry. I know how to take care of myself. Don't pick up if you cannot talk.

No, absolutely. And I say something very similar. If it's that dire an emergency, it's the police the ambulance or the paramedics that you're needing to call us, not me. So it just does put it into context and put it into perspective, doesn't it?

It sure does. And you mentioned something about how you took that nap and then you felt much better and you were able to tackle your list and got more done. I think what you're referring to is that balance between the masculine and feminine energy, where feminine rest and the masculine energy is go, go, go. And as women, I think, especially if we We tend to take care of a lot of things. We tend to lean towards the masculine and ignore the feminine because it's like, I don't know about you, but sometimes I bully myself into, Girl, you can get more done. And that's just the feminine, just the masculine, get it done. And it's like, no, I can have a happy dance between the masculine and the feminine, and that makes them even more feminine.

A hundred %. And I lived in the masculine energy for so long because that doing and structure, that's what created safety for me. As I went on my own healing journey, I realized that that's how I found safety for myself and actually resting. Even still now, I can feel a little flutter in my tummy as I'm talking about it because it is still quite new to me that resting and sitting in that flow and the creativity. It needs to be that harmony because you can't just do, do, do unless you've got the creativity and the ideas coming from the feminine side as well. And sometimes one might be slightly more than the other, but it's always about coming back to that center. That's something that's been very, very new for me to work with, but it's made such a difference.

It does. It's even making Having the capacity and the learning of it, because it's not yet the concept. Many of us know what we need to do. But if we don't have the capacity, I don't know if it ever happened to you where an opportunity comes up, where your calendar opens up and you could take that up and you're like, You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to stay up working for five hours, knowing that that's going to mess you up for the following day. And if we don't learn it and if we don't implement it, we're going to create those same habits that are going to keep us in that loop of insanity, doing the same thing, expecting a different result.

So you're tapping into something that I've just recently started conceptualizing for myself and for the clients that I work with. And it's called the self-worth loop. And it's basically in that It's, again, based on my own experiences of where if you don't feel worthy, and that is for me the crux of it, that's the first thing I work on with clients is you need to feel worthy of creating whatever it is you desire, however that looks for you. But if you don't feel worthy, then you're constantly going to be attracting and be in situations that reinforce that lack of worth. You're going to feel stuck, you're going to feel low, your vibe is going to be low. But if that's true, then the opposite is also true. Whereas if you choose joy, if every day, whatever it is, do I want tea or coffee this morning? What's going to bring me the most joy right now? It's going to be a cup of herbal tea, or it's going to be my coffee if that's what you need, that buzz. That's when you then start bringing more opportunities that bring you joy that are aligned with what it is, your dreams and aspirations.

And that's when your action becomes aligned as well. It all just starts flowing so beautifully.

Sure. It does make such a difference this morning. It can be as simple drinking coffee out of your favorite mug. I literally did that. I put my favorite grandpa's sweater on. And when I tell you, I wrap myself up in my favorite blanket, I'm sipping my coffee, and I said to myself, I'm pretty happy right now. And that's all it was. I put my coffee in my favorite mug. I put my sweat on, got my feet on the couch under my favorite blanket. And I'm like, nobody's coming to mess with me. I don't have to cook for nobody. I am here with myself. And I had that moment of I am being so productive right now just by taking this moment to take care of me. As a recovering workaholic, I was like, girl, you're doing so good.

Oh, wow. I love that so much. It just makes my heart sing to hear you talk about that. I often talk about just finding those small moments of joy in the day. It could be as much as stepping away from your desk and looking at the window, noticing whatever nature it is. Okay, you might live in the city, but what else can you see that brings you joy? It could be a a bright yellow car that's driving past or something. Obviously, in New York City, there's lots of yellow cars driving by. It's not necessarily the big things. It's not going on that trip of a lifetime. It's not buying that design your handbag. It's those small moments of joy because the more you can cultivate that, the more you're going to bring in and just generally happier you are all around.

Yeah, for sure. And it's funny because every time you say New York, people think New York City. So hours away from the city. I'm in the middle of nowhere, and that's what I get to see. I get to see grass. Well, not right now because it's winter, but I get to see what the grass used to be. I get to see the snow on the ground. I get to see trees that are perennial and always come back. And it's knowing how to take care of yourself. So you mentioned that this is fairly new to you, but since November, you have been experiencing this joy. So if you still remember, can you compare your before with your now? What are main differences in your life and truly experiencing joy?

I think before, there was moments where I would think to myself, I would love to say I love my life right now, but I couldn't say it. I didn't quite know exactly what it was. I even sat down and journaled on it. What is it that would make me say I love my life as it is right now? I could never quite pinpoint it. Then once that shifted for me, I look at my home and the roof's needing replaced at some point in the next year or two. There's things, but I love my home. It's my home. Just feeling very abundant. I think that's what shifted for me. Before, there was always that bit of lack of I need something more, I want something more. Now it's like I've got everything that I need. I can keep my son fed and clothed and he's doing well. He's going to go off to university in September. I'm moving into this next phase of my life where my son's moving on, but it's come at the right time because I'm craving this freedom. Yes, I'm always going to be his mom and I want to be there for him, but he's so independent now.

I can go away for a short break if I want to. I can just go out for a night with my friends if I want to. I don't have to worry about babysitter's and who's going to look after him. I think it's just been such a gradual shift over time. But as I said, I can I'm really saying right now in this very moment, I love my life. And yeah, there's other things that I still want and want to do. But as I'm sitting here right now, I love my life, and I could never say that before.

Oh, my God. I'm so happy for you. God, that you found that for yourself. What was the moment you said earlier you were helping other entrepreneurs be seen, and then you had that moment of, wait a minute, I'm a person. I'm a healer. How am I helping myself be seen? So how was that moment for you to say, hey, I'm putting myself on the list. I want to be It's been interesting, too.

Yeah. I can remember, it's like one of those things. It's usually was something maybe tragic that happened. You'll never forget where you were. I was sitting in my living room and I was part of this group container. It was a 30 days of devotion to yourself that somebody hosted. It was about day four or five into it. I can't even remember what she gave us daily guidance to work through. I remember sending a voice note going, Guys, this is what I'm here to do. The people that I want to help is me just a couple of years ago, a few steps ago. Finally, I understand this, and the tears were streaming down my face. I wish I'd saved the voice recording in the group because it's gone now. But It was just that moment of... That bit about staying present, seeing the opportunities. The whole of 2024, every conversation I was having was pointing it. It was like the universe was hitting me over the head. You want to be a spiritual healer, you want to be a spiritual healer. But I was so stuck in that. I'm an online business manager and a business coach, and this is what I've done.

I've spent three years growing my brand. This is all going to be for nothing. It all just landed into place where I realized, and I actually speak about this a lot on social media as well. I wasn't starting from scratch because everything that I was helping my previous clients with, I could apply now to my own business. It meant that I was able to rebrand and establish myself myself in this as a joy alchemist very, very quickly, grow my audience very quickly. And lo and behold, a lot of people who followed me on social media stuck with me. I was very open and honest about the transition, and I didn't really lose any followers either. So that really affirmed to me as well that just by being me, people wanted to be in my presence. People wanted to hear what I had to say, and that was really lovely to see as well.

Yeah, that's so beautiful. I gather that they probably can feel the shift within yourself in the joy because that is magnetic, that is contagious. And even though you make that shift. And I love that you gave yourself permission. I remember that I used to debate every shift that I have, and I have had many shifts. I would debate, what are they going to say? And I can't believe I'm switching again. And now, I don't mind switching mid-sentence. If I feel like doing another shift, I'm doing it because I'm giving myself permission. So I love that you gave yourself that permission. So you do that, you make that shift, you rebrand. What was that? How do you feel when you help someone experience that joy with that freedom without feeling selfish or guilty?

Oh, gosh. It just warms my heart so much because I know what it feels like. I know what it felt like to sit in that, just wanting more, but not knowing how to get there. Sometimes I work with people, so I have a lot of women in my group who maybe don't even I realized this is what they're needing. I'm just there showing up every day and sharing my journey. When I've created posts and videos around my journey, those are the ones that seem to get the most attention because it's real, it's authentic, it's me. But my whole point of sharing them is that people can see themselves in my journey as well and know that it's true. For me, one of the big things was I was still running my business as a side hustle. I had a full-time job and had always had this dream of resigning and running my own business, but never quite got there. A few things happened in life that seemed to put things further on the back burner. Then the moment I just decided I'm going to set the intention, just by setting the intention, I don't have to send my letter of resignation in there and then.

It's about divine timing because before I was, as I said, in that masculine energy. The 31st of March 2024 was when I was going to be resigning. Sorry, 2023 was when I was going to be resigning from my job. That came and went, and I had other things going on in life that meant that it didn't feel possible. Last November, when I landed and I came home to myself, is how I describe it, it felt I had the idea of January 2025. That was starting to feel good for me. Then when I had to rebrand and create this new business, I thought to myself, Well, now I'm going to have to start from scratch. That's going to put that resignation even further back into the future. But as time went on, of November into December, it felt even more right. I have less of a plan now about how my life, my business, my income streams are going to look than I ever had. But just this week, the first week of February, this was my last week in my social work career I finished, and this is me now stepping into this new chapter.

So this is a beautiful time to record this podcast. I feel so at peace with it, and I know that this is the right thing. And that's when you lean into your intuition, when you choose your own joy, your life will flow and opportunities will come in.

Oh, my God. You said so many awesome things. Congratulations. That is so delicious. That feeling of leaning into your intuition and you said divine timing. How often do we... And I heard this the day and it was such a reminder. We know all these things, right? It's like you think you have to do that all by yourself. No, you don't. You have divine help. You literally do. You have When you have people in the background opening doors for you, putting your name in rooms that you haven't even dream of being. And it's easier, right?

Absolutely. And it's such a torundular was a concept that I did struggle with for quite a while. How do you truly surrender and focus on letting go of the how? I feel like I'm sitting in that place right now. I saw a video just a couple of days ago, and it was somebody saying when they travel or when they get in the car to go anywhere, even if it's to the supermarket, they basically just say to themselves, I will arrive there in divine timing. It was such a good way to symbolize how you surrender because then every traffic light that you're stuck at, every traffic jam that you're sitting in, you're just trusting this is where I'm supposed to be. I will get there in divine timing. Whether that's on time, whether that's 5 minutes early or 10 minutes late, it's divine timing. Even though I was already in in that place, it just clicked another bit into place for me. There was somebody else that I follow, and he talks about what I think is out of a book he quoted it, it's about now, not how, and that's that presence. What do I do now?

I don't need to know the next step or how it's going to look or how it's going to pan out.

That's such a great book. I love it. Just the title. You don't even have to read the book. You just have to have the title in front of you. I had that book out for so long. I wanted to see it as often as possible because it's such a message. I I just want to show you right on my arm what I have right here, surrender. Oh, wow. I needed to have it here because I did it for myself. I needed to have it a place where as often as I lifted this arm, which is all the time, it minding me, Girl. And surrender doesn't mean don't do anything. People misunderstand that quote from the Bible. It just means trust. That's what it means. Trust, divide timing, trust that I'm with you, trust that it's going to work out. And one of my favorite phrases that I stole from Abraham Hicks is, Things are always working out for me.

Yes, 100 %. So two things that you said there. The first bit about the surrender and the trust, that's the bit about being present and noticing the opportunities because that's the universal God or source, whatever you believe in, showing you, that's the next thing that you need to do. Whereas if you're just sitting on the couch and you're just your blanket or you're scrolling and you're just watching Netflix and you're not really paying attention, nothing's going to come to you. That's where you need to be present and aware, and that's where the trust comes in. Often a lot of people will talk in challenging times. You're like, God won't give you situations that you're not strong enough to deal with in I'm paraphrasing there. But the opposite, again, is equally true. God or source or the universe is not going to give you opportunities for growth and development if you're not ready for it. I get goosebumps every time I say that because it feels scary I had to do a lot of work around stepping into the unknown and trusting the unknown because I fear that it felt unsafe to me. I was journaling one day and it literally just came to me like, there are endless possibilities in the unknown.

Anything is possible. And so that's how I embrace it now. Then there was a second point that you spoke about and I've lost it now. I'll come back to it. Sorry?

It'll come back to you, for sure.

It was that bit about- Things always work out for you. Things will always work out for you, exactly. And so any time, even last weekend, I had this wobble of because the Monday was going to be my last day at work. And I was like, holy crap. Oh, shit. Now I've actually got to walk the talk. It was great talking about it, hypothetically. I was very bold. This is what I'm going to do. And then I was like, oh, crap, that's actually happening. And I had this major imposter syndrome moments as well. But I always come back to that bit of Maya Angelou of what if I fail? But oh, my dear, what if you fly? When I handed in my resignation, so 20 years ago, I did a tandem skydive. Absolutely loved it. I liken that sending in my letter of resignation as jumping out of the plane, but this time I didn't have somebody strapped in my back with a parachute. I literally have to open my wings. I have to spread my wings. I'm much into astrology and I follow a couple of tarot readers as well. Everything in astrology and the readings has been stepping into your purpose, getting your voice out there, being confident about it.

And so I have to spread my wings because now I am responsible for me. And that's a little bit about radical responsibility. I'm responsible for my choices. I'm responsible for my joy. But what a better place to do it from feeling happy and joyous about it than feeling anxious and scared of what's to come.

Yeah, it's so good. And I don't know if you notice, every time you trust and you open your wings, you don't fall flat on your face. You just don't. Yes. It's like you've seen the eagles or any other birds that they push their babies off the thing.

They fly.

They Baby's going to fly because there's something instinctual that kicks in because we are all about self-preservation. So I put myself in a situation earlier last year. I've been wanting to to move out of my state. So I'm not from the United States, but I lived here now longer than I lived in my island. So we moved here. I was very young. And from the Caribbean to a very cold weather, big, drastic change, different language, different culture, different everything. I loved it here. It was amazing. And we moved to the state. And after, I don't know, I lived there for 29 years. So after year 10, I've been wanting to move. Since year 10, okay? And every time I wanted to do it, it was just not happening. And I kept saying every year, next year, next year, next year. And I'm like, I'm feeling like this on my time here is done. And like you, I had dates. We all do that. And then my daughter went off to college two years ago, and she moved to the college, it was in Offstate New York. And we're very close, and I offer, Hey, I can move.

And she's like, she pulled the brakes. I need my time. I need to figure it out that I can do by myself. And I got that I listened. And then she was ready. And then all the things happened that required me to be closer to her. And when I tell you that the mama instinct kicked in and I'm like, I don't know how this is going to work out, but I'm going to do it. And I did it before everything was set up. I did it before it makes sense to anybody else. It makes sense to me. I'm like, I'm going to trust in this divine timing. I'm going to trust that I'm going to be okay. And I'm telling you, I haven't even shared this online yet. And when I tell you that it was a rough couple of months, but I trust it. And also I burn the boat. You know when you say burn the boat? I burn the boat. Burned. No way that I can go back to the rubble and put it back together. No, no, no. Burned. And when you're in that situation where you go forward or you go forward, And I always say, be careful, do it within your own comfort, I knew what I could handle, and I knew that it was beyond what I could handle, but I knew that I could handle that.

Yes.

And guess what? Things always work out for me. It did.

Yeah. So again, two points, one about everything working out. But the first one was find the evidence that things work out. For me, a big thing, I've given up a really well-paid, stable job and career and then having to be responsible for generating my own income. But looking back in my life, and I don't mean this in a conceited way, I've never had to worry about money. Sometimes it's been the last £10 or $10 in my to get paid the next day, but I have genuinely never had to worry about money. I'm so truly, truly grateful for that because I know not everybody's in that position. It's just, obviously, unconsciously at the time, but just trusting that things will come in. When you create space in your life, whatever that looks like, more will flow in. I had a client that was... I was an online business manager for over two years. As part of this journey, I've had to say to her, I'm moving in a different direction. That was In my business, I was steady income that I was given up as well, or I call it releasing because I wasn't giving it up.

But most just flowed in. I've got other things coming in. The other bit is trusting in yourself and things not making logical sense. That's you working with your intuition and trying to drown out people going, Oh, you're making a mistake. This is the wrong thing. If in your heart it feels expansive and light and freeing, it's the right decision. And you just need to trust and keep coming back to that because often on paper, what I'm doing right now makes no sense at all. No sense to the outside world. But I'm trusting my heart. I'm trusting my intuition, and I'm leaning into that so much.

That is so good because I don't know if it's ever happened to you that you meet someone and something tells you, you have no evidence. You have no reason to dislike this person, but you're like, I don't know. There's something about this person. And then you don't listen. And then a couple of months down the road, sometimes the next day, they do something and you're like, I freaking knew it. I knew it. They were bad. They were bad people. You always know.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And we What I tend to find, and I'm speaking for myself here as well, is when you do that, it's because you're doing it from a fear base. I like it to clients I've had in the past where everything about that person, nice enough person, but there was just something that was like, I'm not sure about it, but I need the money. I want to go for it. And literally, week one or week two, I'm like, Oh, my God, why did I do this? And so very much, I then shifted into if it's not feeling aligned, if I'm not feeling open, expansive, joyous with working with this person in at some moment. You do it nicely, obviously. You're not just going to shut the door on their face, but it's so important because you need to surround yourself with people are going to support your joy, support your decisions, even when they don't seem logical.

It's going to make sense to you. At the end of the day, I think we have, I don't know about you, but I was raised to be a good girl, and that is such a disservice, such a disservice. And I'm finding my inner mean girl. And I'm not a mean, it's just more assertive, where I'm standing up and finding my voice, and I'm telling people off in the most nice, assertive way, calling people out when I feel disrespected, maybe because also I'm a tourist, so I don't put up with anything anymore. And I'm calling people out, and then I'll let it go. It doesn't fester. It doesn't grow into this big folder because I call it early. I'm like, You know that thing that you did? I didn't really quite like that. And I catch my tone because I am really big on tone. If you talk to me in some way, I'm going to shut down and it's not going to be pretty. So I know that. So I like to give what I like to receive back. So I say it in a way that the person can hear it, and I say it later.

I put a pin on that on my head, and I'm like, when everything is well, let me go back to it and say, you know that thing that happened the other day? I would really appreciate if you don't do that again. And when I tell you the piece that I feel about, oh, my God, I stood up for myself in two, I give that person a chance to fix it. And it's on them to fix it. They don't have to fix it. But the consequence is going to be, okay, you're not going to be in my life at that capacity anymore because you haven't earned space in my life. Thank you very much. Bye.

No, absolutely. And it's all about setting boundaries. And that's the bit about taking radical responsibility for yourself because nobody can make you feel a certain way. If you are triggered, then that's something inside of you that needs to be healed. But equally, you can't make anybody else feel a certain way. So that's the bit. We're speaking your truth, standing up for yourself, that's the bit that feels uncomfortable because you feel responsible for other people's feelings and emotions. But actually, as long as you do it in a respectful way and away from love for yourself and the other person, you can't do any harm. And if they're triggered and if they react to it, that's their shit. It so is. It's so liberating for me to get to that place. It's uncomfortable for myself because I realize when I'm triggered, oh, there's some stuff going on here that needs to come out. Also realizing that every decision I've made, every conversation I've had, every action I've taken has landed me where I am today. Now I'm in a good place. Before, I was maybe sometimes in situations or relationships or friendships where I wasn't feeling good.

But now I'm like, okay, but I can change that now because I can make decisions from now on in a way that's aligned with my values and aligned what's important to me.

Oh, my God. I love that you were so honest to say that sometimes it's still hard.

Yes.

Because a lot of people want to show up online and tell you that I always know what to do. I always do it right. I am so transcended. I am so spiritual, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, Shut up. You have your moments when you said the wrong thing. You have your moments when you're not so spiritual and you mess up. Okay? I know. At least I know.

Yeah, absolutely. And you do sometimes because it's that reptilian brain, isn't it? It's that unconscious part that just takes over in a flash. But again, if you're present, if you're in the moment and you're feeling into your emotions, you can catch yourself a lot quicker and you're able to then go back and go, Do you know what? The reverse Which is true of what you were saying with other people. Actually, I don't like the way that I behave. I don't like what I said, I apologize, and what I meant was. I think for me, a big thing is, as you say, even if the moment's passed, it's okay to go back, even if it's days or weeks later, because if it's still sitting with you, then it's something that needs to be heard.

Absolutely. I call that asking for a mulligan. In the game of golf, you can ask for a do-over. So I'm like, Can I have a mulligan? And some people are impressed that I know what that means because I'm not sports at all. But I'm like, I like to use their language. So for women, I always say talk about shoes because most women love shoes and shopping. Not all of them, but many of them. And with men, not all of them, but many of them know sports. So I would say, Can I have a mulligan? I'm talking to a woman, can I have it do over? And then that lets them know, okay, I know I was nutty and I want to make it right. And I don't know if you notice, but sometimes it's not that you were wrong, it's just in the way that you did it. Yes. So I might restate what I say, but I can say, but the way that I said it, the attitude, the timing was wrong. I stand by what I said, but how I said it, that was not right.

And it was the intention or the meaning behind what you said, but the words maybe didn't quite reflect that.

Yeah, that is so beautiful. So today... So how did you feel? Let me ask you back to this, because I thought it was so important. You had that client that you were working with consistently, that money was coming in. How did your inner good girl felt when you were going to tell them, thanks for the money, but I am going to say no? Yeah.

Oh, gosh. It was really... So that was maybe about 10 months ago I had that conversation, and I was so nervous because I was still very much coming out of the people-pleasing mode, and so feeling like I was letting people down. But I, again, just kept my focus on this is where I want to go, this is the shift that I want to take. And It was a difficult conversation. There was a couple of times I could extend it just for another few months, just for another few months, just give me some time. I did that, but I'm literally this week coming, I'm going to be transitioning completely out, and I've handed it over to somebody else. But actually, when I had the conversation with my employer to hand my notice in at the start of this year, that went so much easier. Sometimes once you've done something, once you've taken that first step, the next step becomes easier again. I'm truly grateful because my employer was so understanding and so supportive and just celebrating me for being so brave and taking this next step. Sometimes you fear more what's going to happen. Again, that's living in the future.

Then actually, it's not as bad as you imagine it to be as well. So just do it.

Yeah. I bet your future self is celebrating that action. They're like, Oh, my gosh, she did it. And I believe there's many versions of us, right? So it's like looking forward and I know you had it all in you because we did it. We're here in the future. You're just not here yet, but I'm just high-fiving you from here.

Oh, gosh, yeah. I actually did it. I was hosting a women's circle last night, an in-person one, and we was connecting it with your higher self, your future version of yourself. I was doing the guided meditation. I couldn't get myself in there. My higher self was like, Girl, I'm so proud of you. I'm sorry, this is me. I'm sorry to mirror your language. You're so freaking proud of you because you've done it. You are living the dream right now. This is you. You are me. I am you. And it was like, yes. Okay, thank you.

It's so good. And you said it so well, we're doing it for ourselves. We're doing it for our inner child. I always say I love, and I just get emotional every time when I think about my younger self. I love her so much. I don't ever want to let her down. I promised her that I always keep her safe, and I even have pictures of her around my house because I love her face. I love her pureness. I love her joy. I love her beauty and her rawness. So I look at her and I'm like, Girl, I love you. I smile at her, I wink at her, and I say it. I got you. It's you and me, babe. I got you. I'm not going to let anybody disrespect you anymore. And that keeps me focused. That keeps me like, I'm doing it for her, and I can feel my higher version, my future version of me, urging me forward as well. So we have this generational thing where we are, me, in 3D, 4D, looking for each other, which allows me intern to do my thing so I can highlight amazing people like you.

So then you can shine brighter and the people that need you can find you as well. So it's this endless cycle that we have where we all need each other so we can shine as bright as possible.

Absolutely. I'm so much around collaboration over competition because we all do our own thing in our own way. And yeah, we work with the same universal laws and concepts, and we might use slightly different language. But ultimately, if you're sitting in that place of abundance, then there's enough for everybody. And that's that flow. I had a conversation with somebody yesterday where it's not about me holding on to everything because, again, that's fear-based, that's very negative. Whereas If I'm happy to... Do you know who you need to speak to? Kat. I love making those connections because I trust that if I'm passing that flow through me, that's going to come back again as well. And tenfold, 100-fold, whatever, even if it comes back just in the same shape or form. And that's when life becomes abundant and the flow of life sits within your reality.

Yeah. I think this entire conversation, even though we went into maybe a different directions, if we could summarize it, it's been the power of being joyful with your own life, the power of owning your voice, the power of not hiding behind a good girl, hiding behind But I have to be responsible for other people. But what are they going to say if I say something? So what you do, it's so necessary, especially for people our ages, especially for mothers that are empty nesters, because when you're a mother, and at least my generation, And was taught, you can rest later or you chose to be a mom, so you're not a person anymore. And I told my daughter the other day, I said, I'm always going to be your mom. I'm also a person. And I felt very vulnerable saying, but sometimes kids need to hear it, even though she's 20 at the time, I'm like, I'm still a person. I still get my feelings hurt. I know that I'm a grown up and I can look like I'm very strong. And it almost like what they say, check on your strong friends, because sometimes people forget.

And I have to correct people all the time. I'm like, No, that's still hard for me. Just because it looks effortless, please no. It's too hard for me. Don't minimize my efforts. And that's me again using my voice.

Absolutely.

Oh, my God. I'm so glad. This time has gone by so fast, Debbie. I'm so glad that you stopped by. I know you're very busy, and I'm just so grateful that the Internet connected us. Do you have anything coming up or a place where my audience can get more joy from you?

Yeah. Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having me. And this is the reason I'm starting my own podcast because I love these conversations. They energize me so much. So I hang out mostly on LinkedIn and Facebook. So you can find me there, Debbie Lucas. And the best place to find out what I'm working on in the moment is my website is debilucas. Me/links. And you can put that in the show notes as well because that's all my current bits that I work on. I have a daily newsletter that goes out called Joyful Jump Starts. It's just a one minute, two-minute read that can give you something to ponder over your morning coffee, over your morning meditation or journaling or your commute to work, whatever it is. So it lands in your inbox first thing in the morning and just gives you something to think about throughout the day. And that's been very popular. People have loved that. So again, that's on my links page that you can sign up for that as well.

That's amazing. I love that you answer that. So you hang out the most on LinkedIn and Facebook. Those are your main platforms. So we'll make sure to put those inside the show notes and the blog post that goes along with your show as well. Thank you so much, Debbie. I just want to tell you, I'm going to tell little Debbie, I am so freaking proud of you. Thank you for standing up for yourself. Thank you for putting yourself on the list. Thank you for saying no when you needed to. And thank you for saying yes to yourself. You are amazing.

Oh, Thank you so much. I appreciate you.

You are very, very welcome. Very welcome. There you have it, guys. This is the reason why we have the Healed and Cash Flowing podcast show because of people like Debbie, people that are leading by example, people that are keeping it real and telling you exactly what they struggle with still, how they found their voice, and how they're making the world a better place by starting with themselves. So this is your invitation. My prescription to you today is to listen or watch this episode twice, and then to let me know in the comments, whether it's in the blog post or on social media, let me and Debbie know what was the part that really impacted you the most, and go on, do your thing, that thing that you know you have been wanting. As usual, please know that I love you, that I'm rooting for you, and I'm going to see you super duper soon.